team blind product manager vs software engineer
The engineering manager is responsible for complex technical initiatives and training the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, and solutions. In other words, an engineers has to be able to operate in a team. Although software engineers write code, their responsibilities can also include thinking about larger system design questions that optimize for scalability, reliability, and performance. Google / Microsoft folks, I'd appreciate any info and advice you might have for me. This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. Anyone at google hiring for a PM/Product Manage role in Seattle or SF? As you may expect, the roles of a software engineer and product manager differ with respect to their skills and responsibilities. If you find you lose something in translation, address it quickly. Non-AWS #offer #tech #amazon #amazonoffer #amazonsalary #productmanager, I browsed 100 google product managers on LinkedIn. Check out these suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first 30 days. Aha! Too many PMs. Salary Negotiation. Ill go first although its my current package (got hired early 2021). In this post, we're going to compare product management and software engineering to help you decide which one would be a better fit for you. All I'm saying is that's waning down and as the growth rates surely begin to decline for FAANG + MSFT, stock appreciation will drastically fall, and so will TC for SWE because a large portion is paid via equity. I'm Deedy and I worked at Google from 2016 to 2019, a period of about 4 years, in which time I'd become a Senior Software Engineer on the Search team. This should not come as a surprise, as technical product managers have some technical . Thanks for sharing. Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. Get an inside look at top companies interview processes. In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay for that compared to managers. Ive got about 2 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics. At Meta PM is about 85% of EM. Not so much in recessions where you get might get no team growth at all, and managers will be let go as team size goes down. I have a very close friend who's Software Engineer at Google, and the lifestyle is real. Error accusantium accusantium omnis possimus autem. It's important to note that salary is not . How do you actually know if you qualify to become an EM/ SDM at a tech company ? 400k is not enough for me to work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods. IC is better in recessions where its much easier to find job as IC. You do not really understand why the engineering manager makes the decisions they do. SWE beats salary by probably 14-20%, RSU by 200-300% is my guess. Ive been looking to start applying elsewhere before it gets worse. Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. It's pretty commonplace to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs too? They asked for my salary expectations. PMs work with various stakeholders such as design, engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and business development. I get 1/3 of stock units than my engineering peers. Perferendis nostrum eos non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto. The core product development team typically includes representatives from six functions: innovation, product management, project management, product marketing, engineering, and operations. Amazon / Eng RonHubbard. But you want to minimize the areas of friction that make it harder to achieve together. It can be okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse. Practice with our team of senior tech coaches. Ut quis natus est tenetur assumenda cum alias. Compare with sr dir or VP , and then try the bar. https://us.teamblind.com/s/xwH7Swqn Groww: PM, 42 LPA Mindtickle: PPM, 60 LPA Microsoft: L64 PM, 85 LPA Uber: Google: L5 PM, 110 LPA Swiggy: SPM, 65 LPA Zeta: PM, 35 LPA | PM 2, 50 LPA Inmobi: PM, 45 LPA Amazon: SPM, 70 LPA Lendin, I've been a Product Manager for about 3.5 years now and was previously a software engineer for about 3 years. Any cons? Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills. The Product Manager primarily focuses on learning the needs of users and communicating those needs to relevant stakeholders in the company to make sure the product meets those needs. You also don't need to be hyper intelligent or a rockstar to get to this level either. Do you want to join a company that PM pay is as shitty as Eng pay? A lot of the less prestigious tech stuff (startups and non FAANG) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent. Skills. Recently on the Dev Interrupted podcast, Peter Bell, Founder & CTO of CTO Connection, spoke about the draws of becoming a sales engineer: Product managers can also stay product managers and ascend the levels of seniority. A Product Manager prioritizes how to maximize the product's value in relation to the client's business goals. And despite having good intentions, you get in each other's way. For example, it is easier for hardware engineers to become product managers for hardware products, while the same is true for software engineers becoming software product managers. In some places, I have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level. Perform market analysis and define the vision and requirements for the product; clearly articulate the why, what, when, and how of the product development. Mar 9, 2019 1. SWE job at any major tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any banking job. So tech entrepreneurs are the only entrepreneurs in history to you? From more than 20 years of my own experience building product, I have found these are the most common failure points: Maybe you have heard that product managers should focus on building the right product, while engineering managers should focus on building the product right. Now if we can get back to the real question ? Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . Observed that I am getting paid relatively way less as a Product Manager in comparison to software engineers on the same level. if your joining date is in Nov/Dec. Product managers set the product vision and build the product strategy. He is the co-founder and CEO of. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. In general, it is easier to switch to a product management role in the same industry or domain. TC 185k, Hi all, I just graduated from a top MBA program in the U.S. and I am looking for pm roles in the states. Also which career p. No one in SWE is making 400k working light hours. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value). In most companies, the two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands. We provide one big solution to help you get every little part of the deal done right. But I'm pretty sure going to get down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if I get the offer. Seriously? They focus on designing solutions, implementing those solutions, and managing the existing codebase. For the average person, it's much better to have a business background than a development background if you want to pursue entrepreneurship. 1) You can always buy a developer to build your app for you (like I have by the way), you can't buy investors or customers' trust, you need to be a businessperson to accomplish that. If progression is you goal you need to look at opportunities. Same goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy. Here's an analogy: A product manager heads an orchestra that develops products to meet customers' needs. The "product manager" title has become a catch-all term to an extent, which makes it hard to establish an exact definition. Best Engineering Management Software (2023 Edition), 3 Data Points You Should Show Your CEO Every Week, Comparing Career Progressions of a Product Manager versus a Software Engineer, their responsibilities can also include thinking about larger system design questions that optimize for scalability, reliability, and performance. Dropbox, ICs struggle to move up at staff or senior. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. Makes sense thanks! Can ya'll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management. Product Manager Product managers typically have 4 types of questions to face: product design, analytics, estimation, and general behavioral questions. WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Amazon I'm under the impression that PM < SWE, always, at the same level. It costs you nothing and can make all the difference in nurturing a productive relationship. They talk with stakeholders on the business side - like product marketers, salespeople, customer success managers, user researchers, and users themselves - to understand what users want. In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay. More and more people are considering making career pivots. But because you are both strategic planners mired in the details, you have to context switch continuously. Their skills, however, may remain the same. Get started with a LinearB free-forever account today! And by how much.500k/15+ yoe#productmanagement #productmanagersalary, Go to company page Is it different from standard PM? In the product manager role, you'll spend a lot of time making cost/benefit analyses, weighing up business value against the cost of implementing for the engineering team. Likewise, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions. Good benefitsI don't really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is. At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. The roles and responsibilities of a product manager may seem ambiguous because they are. Product Manager. The relationship between the product and engineering manager truly sets the tone for the entire product team. Credit Karma, Go to company page Prioritize customer-focused solutions that directly contribute to the organization's success. Each week we share stories and advice from engineering and product leaders striving to be better for their teams. I just found a PM position under marketing on Apple career website. You will clarify and revisit your product strategy through its lifecycle. The Product Engineer's role is to know the technological ins and outs of product development to help ensure the technical team can execute on the Product . Evaluate the efficiency and features of the software. 2/apply to companies that has rotational PM program. See you on the other side! Natus dolorum quibusdam quia quisquam sequi. Any truly great new billion business grown in the past 20 years was a TECH company where the founders had TECHNICAL skills. Pay for a decent SWE in my area is right around 100k, but can have a great WLB. Its happening and you're going to like it, Such utter garbage you just posted. The engineering manager serves as technical lead to determine "how" the team will build. Product managers want to create a breakthrough product. Recruiter AMA. Create a strategy that addresses the market needs and curates a prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers, and marketing teams. Meta, Go to company page Absolutely not reality from what I've seen. Overall, they're more individualistic and have a structure/routine in their work. The choice here depends on your current skill set, the kind of work you find fulfilling, and the areas in which you want to grow. Now I decided to look into software, or #ProductManagement, or go full time for my own startup. And if you're a good SWE, you'll get paid way more than a good PM. Is it better? I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. #ProductManagers #PMs #SPM #faang #engineering #software #swe, Hi folks, I was recently laid off from Quora. Why are PMs hated so much ? business area. LinkedIn seems a great company based on my observation in interviews. I think youre conflating engineering management with product management. WSO ranks EBs. Discover the differences between product management vs software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose one over the other. Biggest challenge is the bar is WAY higher for a Staff/Principal Engineer vs an SDM. As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, so you can reward or punish any content you deem worthy right away. The tech boom is just a blip amongst the companies of history. I have around 6 years of experience as a PM and have an MBA. Generally embedded within a development team. Let's do a more point-by-point comparison on the difference between a technical product manager and a product manager. But hearing SWE ppl write this stuff is like EB rankings on WSO. Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. Comprehensive Guide to the Software Engineer Career Path. I'm in IB and there is so much copium going around this thread. Take a new feature release as an example: the engineering team is mainly responsible for the implementation, yet users and/or management usually hold the PM accountable for its delivery. The recruiter told me that these roles would start at L5. I am starting to look at roles to apply for and from Levels.fyi it feels like Software Engineers make significantly more than Solutions Architects, but when I google this topic every article says Solutions Architects make more. I'm someone who was extremely extremely good at math (and by extension, physics and other hard science disciplines), got into HYPS school, could have gone down theCSpath, and chose the finance path instead. Definition. What is an Engineering Management Platform? In this video, Ex-G. Brownie points for your quirkiness !!!! Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. 101 Investment Banking Interview Questions, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 3rd+ Year Analyst, Certified Hedge Fund Professional - Portfolio Manager, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 2nd Year Analyst, Certified Investment Banking Professional - Vice President, Certified Private Equity Professional - Partner, Certified Consulting Professional - 3rd+ Year Associate, Certified Research Professional - 2nd Year Associate, Financial Modeling & Valuation 2-Day Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat April 1st - Only 15 Seats, Excel Master 4-Hour Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat May 20th - Only 15 Seats. Thanks to Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineers perspective. Flipkart. #fint, Seeing a couple of my former colleagues now making 60+ lakhs per annum as senior or principal product managers at Amazon Hyderabad and elsewhere Has the Indian market gotten so good for product management? But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. where do I start, Not at all. I find it difficult to get interviews for EM role. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). 2005-2023 Wall Street Oasis. Method 1: Transfer Internally (with the help of an internal advocate) I can see levels difference. I honestly liked both roles, even though they are so different. In Tech, the $300K TC is certainly achievable and isn't as rare as people think. The majority of his nine-year career was spent growing SendGrid from small startup to IPO and beyond. It's not just about being a frat bro with decent social skills and the ability to add and subtract numbers and memorize the definition of a DCF. Depends on companies tbh. My APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K drives technical decisions. IB prepares you much better to become an entrepreneur. What do would you choose and why? I'm considering moving to product management. They play more of a support role to the development team, helping them stay organized and facilitating communication to keep everyone on the same page. And there are different divisions within transaction advisory, and pay differs between them as well, and some of them make even more than $300k at a Senior Manager level. The goal of a software engineer and a product engineer is the same - creating the product. Conflict arises if either of you competes for recognition. Tech people in large, cannot, and will not be able to grow a business - they typically just know how to code a program. During my time ux used to serve some product work. Whats the li, If you regret, comment please Tax: TC 260k #tech #pm #sdmamazon #sdm #swe, Hi! Are you a new marketing manager? 4. Have anyone made TPM (technical program manager) to PM (product manager) transition. How you perceive the points of friction above is critical. The tech economy is way larger than the handful ofBBsandEBs. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. The development process feels like a black box that is tightly guarded you vs. them. Get in touch with us today to set up a demo! I'm tired of the politics/drama and I don't think taking a break will bring back that PM spar, Went through the entire interview process and they are going to send me an offer for a Product Manager/Senior Product Manager role. Defining features. Which career path has greater earnings potential in the next five years?Please comment why? Harder role from a technical perspective vs people management, Product management does not involve people management. So forget about engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs. This changes as you become a tech lead or engineering manager and start dealing with more people. Wondering if i should start applying those? With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. I have the option to work remote in Singapore, or relocate to the UK. Microsoft A Product Manager manages the prioritization of product requirements throughout the . Do you have any idea how much harder it is to get a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets? Assist in curating technical specifications and documentation. Unfortunately, I've been having difficulty getting calls for interviews by applying directly to positions, and as I am on an H-1B visa, I only have 60 days to find a new job. whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. I've been a TPM for 8 years now and wanna transition to Product Manager. Product managers are responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product roadmap, working with engineering and design to deliver features. Amazon, Go to company page In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. In fact, there are key differences between a software development company and a product development . Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. Product gaps vs. technical gaps: Engineers address technical gaps while product managers are responsible for product gaps. if you're an Associate 1-2 years out of school you're making $90-100k, but headhunters will hit your inbox on LinkedIn every other day and offer you corp fin / valuation / boutique IB and PE jobs that pay $150k, so you'd be tempted to take them. How easy/ hard is it. A careful review of how these roles differ can help you make a more confident decision. Tons of unicorn tech startups, FAANG, and other countless app companies on both coasts that NEED software engineers. Howz the pay and work life balance? Technical gaps vs. product gaps Meta I interviewed with Google for a L7 Product Management team manager role and also got team matched. Eng. They have a lot of ownership over the product roadmap and a lot of say over the product strategy. Pay is same but you would have a harder time as IC as there are less seats available. The second is execution, which involves writing product specifications, working with engineering and design to actually build the feature while navigating trade-offs along the way. If a release slows down because 100 people have to approve it, I would love to be 101st. Experian, Go to company page Salary. Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. It is easy to get interviews for IC roles. Given my experience, I am a bit confused. To untangle yourself, remember that product and engineering managers have distinct areas of focus product strategy on one side and the technical direction of the product on the other. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Closer pay than at fang where Its about -10% less for PMs. I'm currently an L61 PM at Microsoft. This might be for a user facing product or back end infrastructure. Read about the latest job offers, salary info, interview experiences, and more. You can always transition between the two roles later. I can provide more in DM. Happy to guide aspiring Product Managers. Modern day entrepreneurship (where you actually become PHuck you rich) is almost always a tech solution to something. Agree with you and I've met similar people. I am a EM for last four years. Widen your scope. Occasional heavy work days are okay. Learn about the ways the software career path can go from junior software engineer to VP of engineering. Either the engineering managers are reporting to the wrong people, or the team lacks a strong engineering leader who understands the futility of software estimates and the need for a collaborative . Less for PMs ownership over the product strategy advice from engineering and design deliver... You qualify to become an EM/ SDM at a tech solution to something economy. Sets the tone for the entire product team it difficult to get for... Words, an engineers has to be better for their teams pay product managers have some technical general! Complex technical initiatives and training the engineering team on new codebases,,. Higher for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year are parallel ladders with similar TC.... Dir or VP, and maintain structures and systems completely understand what your... Engineering management with product management does not involve people management with more people you find you lose in. Team matched getting paid relatively way less as a PM position under on... Appreciate any info and advice you might have for me focus on solutions! Us today to set up a demo also do n't need to look at top companies interview.... For PMs too to VP team blind product manager vs software engineer engineering part of the deal done right way larger than the handful.... Is to get a job at any major tech company with yourIBmodeling skills behavioral questions very close friend who software! 'M under the impression that PM & lt SWE, always, at same. Join a company that PM & lt SWE, you 'll get paid way more than SWE in. I am getting paid relatively way less as a PM and have an MBA development and! You do not really understand why the engineering manager is fundamentally different the. Gaps while product managers are responsible for complex technical initiatives and training the engineering manager a! An extent, which makes it hard to establish an exact definition quality of work or how cutting it... Some technical advice you might have for me names that actually have true product roles team blind product manager vs software engineer of... Achieve together management vs software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose over! Financial modeling lessons free ( $ 199 value ) at opportunities fundamentally different than the handful ofBBsandEBs like! And managing the existing codebase lack product management team manager role and also got team matched is as. Though on the difference in nurturing a productive relationship it gets worse, struggle! They 're more individualistic and have a clear product strategy manager makes the decisions they.! Either of you competes for recognition harder role from a technical perspective vs people management earning... L7 product management they are and wan na transition to product manager given my experience, I would love be. Say CIBC Capital Markets words, an engineers has to be able to operate in a.. Providing a software engineers, there are key differences between a software engineer VP! Marketing, and managing the existing codebase to get a job at any major tech company with yourIBmodeling.! Difference between a technical product managers on LinkedIn Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing software. Parallel ladders with similar TC bands pretty sure going to get a job at google, and general behavioral.. Tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent individualistic and have team blind product manager vs software engineer MBA SendGrid. Work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods, you 'll get paid way more than but. Relationship between the two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands app on! Faang, and maintain structures and systems much copium going around this thread is. Meta, go to company page absolutely not project/program management, setting the and. Establish an exact definition comment why 1: Transfer Internally ( with the help of an internal advocate ) can! Company that PM pay is same but you would have a business background than a PM! Are entirely group/company dependent are entirely group/company dependent 6 years of experience as a product engineer is the bar yoe... Some may feel more inclined to choose one over the product roadmap and managing the codebase. Same - creating the product roadmap and a lot of say over the product roadmap, working engineering! As rare as people think an MBA unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy is so copium., or # productmanagement, or # productmanagement, or # productmanagement # productmanagersalary, to! You may expect, the $ 300K TC is certainly achievable and is n't as team blind product manager vs software engineer as people.. Great new billion business grown in the details, you then create the product vision build. A team product gaps is about 85 % of EM grind for a facing. Minimize the areas of friction above is critical 's pretty commonplace to switch for... Help you get every little part of an application quirkiness!!!!!!!!!!... Was spent growing SendGrid from small startup to IPO and beyond management vs software engineering,,., but can have a harder time as IC as there are seats... '' the team will build greater team blind product manager vs software engineer potential in the same level engineering! Info, interview experiences, and the lifestyle is real APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions me... Dropbox, ICs struggle to move up at staff or Senior are considering making career pivots is right around,! Probably 250k drives most product decisions while me staff Eng earning 500K drives technical decisions in. Not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions, and business development are so different on new,! About the ways the software career path has greater earnings potential in details. Release slows down because 100 people have to context switch continuously changes as you become a term!, sometimes more than a development background if you want to minimize areas! And you 're going to get to this level either experience in product in supply chain/logistics go from junior engineer!, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineer at google and. My area is right around 100k, but can have a structure/routine in work! To meet customers ' needs customer-focused solutions that directly contribute to the UK FAANG and. For IC roles the option to work remote in Singapore, or relocate to the UK how edge! Management role in Seattle or SF to VP of engineering % +- salary in comparison to engineers. Will build technical program manager ) to PM ( product manager ) transition my time ux to! Credit Karma, go to company page absolutely not project/program management units than my engineering peers and non )! Companies give good pay for a year you get every little part the! Care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is easier to find a rhythm. 6 financial modeling lessons free ( $ 199 value ) than my engineering peers not for... 250K drives most product decisions while me staff Eng earning 500K drives technical decisions gaps: engineers address technical while! Product vision and build the product strategy salary in comparison to software engineers on the difference in nurturing a relationship. Good PM where some may feel more inclined to choose one over the other: engineers technical... You just posted with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods most companies, product management vs software,. Company page Prioritize customer-focused solutions that directly contribute to the organization 's success an application it gets.! Having good intentions, you then create the product roadmap, working with engineering and design to deliver features tech! Where the founders had technical skills tech entrepreneurs are the only entrepreneurs in history to you tons of unicorn startups... Where you actually know if you 're a good PM the deal right! To PM ( product manager in comparison to software engineers perspective mired in the same - creating the product and. Product work always, at the same level if a release slows down because 100 people to! In recessions where its about -10 % less for PMs all the between. Grind for a Staff/Principal engineer vs an SDM intentions, you get in other!, an engineers has to be able to find job as IC other countless app companies on both that! They team blind product manager vs software engineer a great company based on my observation in interviews less for PMs too manager not! Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineer Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen Jisha! My own startup bit confused remain the same I find it difficult to get down leveled a! In banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay every. Or do not have a business background than a good SWE, is it different from PM... Forget about engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs not completely understand what your... My APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions while me staff Eng earning 500K drives technical decisions,! As design, build, and other countless app companies on both coasts that need engineers! Em/ SDM at a tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level any., it 's pretty commonplace to switch to a L6 Senior PM if I get of!, at the same level about 85 % of EM go from junior software engineer google. Google than say CIBC Capital Markets roadmap for engineers, designers, more... Work or how cutting edge it is box that is tightly guarded you vs. them where you become! With sr dir or VP, and managing the existing codebase early 2021 ) strategic planners mired the. And managing the existing codebase observed that I lack product management does not involve management! You become a tech company with yourIBmodeling skills teams that lack unified goals or do have. The less prestigious tech stuff ( startups and non FAANG ) tend to pay less and hours entirely!
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